Juan Viejo2

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Posts by Juan Viejo2

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  33

  Slow motion pioneers

  by 1Averagejoe in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  observing our local unemployed pioneers and how long they take to get to their first or next call, usually taking the longest route to get to one they know won't be there anyway.

  along the way it's gossipy this and that.

  pioneers?

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  Juan Viejo2

  eyeuse2badub -

  I was also a JW back in the 1950s and 60s. While going to jr. high and high school I would always pioneer during my summer break. If I remember correctly, in those days vacation pioneering was 70 hours. I would ride my bicycle to the territory and then begin to count my time and stop counting when I left the territory. I hit every house in that territory. That's what I did because I truly believed that Jehovah was watching me and that if I cheated on counting my time He would make me pay dearly.
  

  I always had this vision that on Judgement Day, while cleaning up after Armageddon, I'd hear a booming voice from heaven that would call down at me and say,
  

  "Sorry young brother, but you aren't going to make it through. You skipped a home on Prince Albert Drive that had someone who lived there that was ready to accept the Truth that very day. But the next day that person was killed in a car accident. Because she had done some very bad things before and never learned the truth, I have to leave her dead - all because of you." And then a lighting bolt would drop down from heaven and turn me into pot roast.
  

  I'm serious. That's what I really thought. But then I would see elders ("servants" in those days) skip houses or sit in their car and chat while others were knocking doors. I'd hear gossipy sisters talk about only doing houses on the shady side of the street so they wouldn't get sunspots on their face or neck. I realized early on that I was the often the only one in service that day that truly believed that the holy spirit, Jesus, and Jehovah gave a shit about our group doing door-to-door the way we had been taught at Ministry School.
  

  When I finally left when I was in my early 20s I never looked back even though my wife continued going for about 5 more years and my parents were "serving where the need was greater."
  

  Now I look at JWs and their less than half-hearted preaching work. Elders come to my door and stuff an invitation into a flower pot on my porch rather than knock on the door. When I've caught them doing that, they just reach down, pull out the invitation and hand it to me - and then make a speedy exit. I see them on the street lazily walking along and skipping houses. I love watching them as they walk by and admire my wife's flowers or notice someone getting a new roof or taking a look at someone's new car, but then skipping those houses. When I was going door to door I knew to use all of those things as conversation starters - not an excuse to just take a lingering look and then go to the next house.
  

  So yes - I think that modern door-to-door witnessing is really a waste of time. JW.org is a far more powerful tool to get the word out. But potential converts will look at JW.org a few times and go WTF and never return. At least that's my prayer to the white-haired, white-robed guy in the sky sitting in his ivory and gold throne surrounded by white-haired gold-crowned Jesus and his army of white-haired white-robed angels.

  JV
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  10

  Help finding video

  by Pubsinger in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  sorry everyone i keep asking for help.. there was a short video someone put up, it had letts saying 'we reject the claims of apostates that we cover up child abuse' and then it cuts to court footage of elders saying they were aware under oath, then cuts back to the same clip of letts saying the same thing.

  then more courtroom footage and back to letts saying it again.

  it was a great clip.

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  Juan Viejo2

  This is the original link. I participated in making the video. Glad you liked it...

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbXeBXRFNcI

  JV
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  70

  2015 Convention

  by wifibandit in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  pixel, cappytan, and wifibandit present for your consideration:.

  https://youtu.be/g16_p3tncxq?list=plrw9u-n1z2m-_z5_a55vmqj1biuwnslhq.

  the saturday program will be added tomorrow, followed by the sunday program the next day..

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  Juan Viejo2

  This whole thing is ripe for parody. I may try to go to the Saturday session and get some video of the baptism and demos at my local site. What I noticed the last time I went (2011) was that the speakers could have been interchangeable - their inflections were all 1-2-3 - kadoo, 1-2-3-4-kadoo. Even when they called special guests like local elders or "really, really blessed" pioneers who gave up everything and wanted to share their personal story of being "blessed by Jehovah" in mysterious and unexpected ways - it was still 1-2-3-kadoo.

  I'll watch the whole video later this week and maybe do a mashup with it. It is all so staged and staged terribly.

  JV
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  4

  What happened to the Canyon Lake Congregation in Socal?

  by Eymvee in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  hi im new to the forum, and on a quest of sorts i was told the congregation was dissolved and not to talk about it but i am very curious.

  i beleive it was 10 or so years ago ( i wasnt there) most of the publishers i believe were distributed among other congregations.

  we had maybe fifteen "canyon lakers" but id like to know what caused this.

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  Juan Viejo2

  Was that the Kelle Jarka Kingdom Hall?

  He was an elder (I believe COBE) and he murdered his wife and was convicted.

  JV
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  13

  Has Eternal Life become a carrot?

  by I_love_Jeff in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  in the insight on the scriptures volume 2 pages 248-249 the society says, "so with obedient mankind, when man's last enemy, death, is brought to nothing, there will be no sin working in their bodies to bring death.

  to time indefinite they will not need to die.

  the insight on the scriptures vol 2, page 1102 -what time indefinite can mean, "however, the hebrew expression 'ohlam' does not in itself mean "forever".

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  Juan Viejo2

  BTW - the same argument above would apply to those "anointed" who become part of the 144,000. Rule over the earth? For why? If everyone is perfect and without sin and busy, busy, busy doing good things, where do they come in and why does it take 144,000 of them - especially if they all speak with one voice and are under the direction of Jesus and Jehovah?

  The logic escapes me...

  JV
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  13

  Has Eternal Life become a carrot?

  by I_love_Jeff in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  in the insight on the scriptures volume 2 pages 248-249 the society says, "so with obedient mankind, when man's last enemy, death, is brought to nothing, there will be no sin working in their bodies to bring death.

  to time indefinite they will not need to die.

  the insight on the scriptures vol 2, page 1102 -what time indefinite can mean, "however, the hebrew expression 'ohlam' does not in itself mean "forever".

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  Juan Viejo2

  I've asked JWs about how long they would really like to live. Their natural first response is,"forever. Forever in a paradise earth."

  Then I get ridiculous and ask them, "Forever? I can see living for another 100 years, watching the earth change into a paradise, taming the animals,etc. But what about 500 years out? What is going to keep you interested then - especially since there will be no need for sex as the world will surely have been filled to capacity by then. What about 1000 years later - one hundred thousand years? Hey, what about a million or a billion years? Forever is a long time to do the same things over and over again."

  I point out that all things that live must die. The ancient redwood trees in California and the Pacific Northwest are literally thousands of years old (guess they never "sinned before god.") And yet they all do die at some point. Thousands of entire families of creatures (supposedly created by Jehovah) lasted for millions of years as a species, but not as individuals - have died and completely disappeared. Even stars and galaxies have met their doom.

  So I ask them: "Does everlasting life really mean living 'forever'?

  JV
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  104

  The Secret is out....but nobody cares

  by MrTheocratic in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i've been looking on this site for some time but never posted.

  i'll give a little about myself, but not too much.

  i'm a ex-bethelite ( brooklyn )and currently serving as an elder (10 years) (thinking about stepping down) on the service committee.

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  Juan Viejo2

  This has been a generally excellent thread. It has pointed out many of the "hidden" facts about modern-day Jehovah's Witnesses. For most of the "faithful" it has become more of a cultural lifestyle rather that a religion that they absolutely believe in without question.

  The "active" ones that I have met are generally well informed about the history of the Watchtower and they know that they are mostly living a lie. But most of the older Witnesses feel they have no place else to go and no desire to move on to something else. They know the Society is flawed and much of it is just made-up bullshit, but their response to that is the typical, "what other religion is more correct?"

  They have truly become the equivalent of modern Jews. Yes, there are isolated pockets of super-Jews like the Hassidics, who go overboard and basically do what JWs do - bring their kids up to be like them and then shun them if they leave. "You don't wear the black clothes, the funny hat and the curly sideburns? Out with you!"

  So the kids grow up to be like their parents even though they know it is all just part of their culture, not TRUTH about God or life or even their own history.

  My own exposure to modern JWs has mostly proven that husbands stay in because of their wives and parents - wives stay in because of their husbands and parents and friends. Children stay in because they have no where else to go - even though they know that one or both of their parents really don't buy the whole package.

  Thanks to my websites I get many inquiries from readers who identify themselves as JWs. Some of these inquiries are to verify something that I have written or they have read somewhere else (JWs are really quite limited as far as access to old literature and historic documentation.) "Can you send me a PDF of the WT or Awake! magazine that said [1975 would see Armageddon, for example] or the MP3 of the brother who said "stay alive 'til '75!"

  The fact is that most JWs have heard about these things, but are reluctant to go search for the truth themselves. I think many of them are afraid that they might really find out the truth and then realize they have wasted their lives serviing the Watchtower - but again, where would they go and is it worth losing their families over it all?

  While the blood doctrine, the protection of pedophiles, and the whole when the hell is Armageddon coming doctrine are subjects that we should be critical about - the priority that I see that will really lead to both an exodus and a full exposure of the evil of the Watchtower is to attack the practice of shunning. Disfellowshipping and disassociation - bleh! Leave those as they are - who cares? But forced and extreme shunning should be the focus and hammered constantly. There are movements in the UK and Europe toward banning extreme shunning, especially involving family members, and they seem to be making some headway.

  If we can make even a dent in that horrific practice by publicizing it and using it to embarrass the Watchtower and its leaders, then we could see hundreds more JWs pack their book bags and hit the exit doors.

  JV
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  52

  It's starting shunning will stop brochure first.step

  by poopie in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i'm in contact with service and writing and brochure first step there bleeding publishers they can't take it anymore publishers are depressed because they feel they must shun others and they know it's unloving.

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  Juan Viejo2

  OFF-TOPIC:Not sure why my text is repeating (this has

  Not sure why my text is repeating (this has happened before). I've seen it on some other posts as well. This is the only site where that seems to happen when I post.

  [I've gone back and deleted the duplicated text.]

  
  
  
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  52

  It's starting shunning will stop brochure first.step

  by poopie in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i'm in contact with service and writing and brochure first step there bleeding publishers they can't take it anymore publishers are depressed because they feel they must shun others and they know it's unloving.

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  Juan Viejo2

  I can see a slow shift to a more "conscience" driven approach to shunning. If that happens you will begin to see more articles and convention talks about "reaching out with mercy and understanding" as a way to bring those who left because of doctrinal or procedural disagreements.

  I have heard that there will be "reach out" programs first to disassociated ones and then those who committed some carnal sin many years before. It makes no sense to block out elderly former JWs who were DFd 30 years ago for "fornication." Many of them couldn't recommit that sin now if they wanted to while others have become stable parents and married partners for years - so have "repented" by their actions (or health), if not by repeating words of repentance before a judicial committee.

  I do believe that we will see in the relatively near future a "special ministry" directed to those who have been forced out and shunned by their families. Shunning of family members could be relegated to a "conscience matter" (as the Watchtower already claims it to be when asked by media or courts). Removing the threat of judicial action against those who refuse to fully shun someone could be justified. My mother and father would not shun me when I showed up at their door, but their conscience would not allow them to come and stay in my house or go out of their way to "invite" me to their home. My father was an elder for many years and as far as I know never was reproved for allowing me to visit him. My sister and niece followed the same pattern most of the time - but they would "harden their hearts" at various times after the Watchtower would clamp down.

  Agree or not with my suggestion, but I do see some movement toward relaxation coming in the next five years. Too many JWs are being disfellowshipped or disassociating themselves and leaving - and then deciding that the whole JW experience is not worth fighting to rejoin - even if it means disconnection from loved ones.

  JV
  
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  13

  Could you help me with a little Witness history ?

  by ukgirl in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  as part of a student film project that i am completing i will be conducting a telephone interview with an exjw tomorrow.. the person i am interviewing was a witness between the years of the 50's (born in) - late 80's so obviously would have been in their late teens for the prophecies and events of 1975.. as this person is older than i, i am plan to tailor my questions around being a witness in that time period.

  i just wonder if you could point me in the direction of any more date specific events surrounding this time period that i could touch upon in my interview ?.

  much appreciated .

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  Juan Viejo2

  Another important feature of the 1950s to 1970s was the release of the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures. The New Testament (the Greek Scriptures) was first released in 1950 and the first of the Hebrew Scriptures was released in 1953. The whole Bible was translated and released by 1960.

  What we did not know was that we were being lied to the entire time. At the big International Conventions we were told that the Society had employed highly qualified scholars and translators to do the hard work. We were given word pictures of highly qualified brothers and non-Witness scholars viewing the Dead Sea Scrolls, accessing museums and libraries around the world (even the Vatican was mentioned), and pouring over ancient manuscripts with magnifying glasses, etc.

  We would all cheer and clap and stand up to applaud the hard work being done. I remember getting my very own first leather bound edition of the complete NWT Bible in 1960.

  But it was all lies. All a sham. We did not have specialized scholars accessing manuscripts and papyrus rolls in the British Museum and the Vatican. None of that ever happened. It was just Freddy Franz and a few specialized hellpers who took other modern and popular translations, along with the Emphatic Diaglott and similar books and then rewording using more modern (but not necessarily conversational) speech and writing styles. Freddy would approve and then read sections to Brother Knorr and the other officers of the Watchtower. They would rubberstamp his work and it would get published.

  The fact is that we were scammed - and still are being scammed. They just outright lied to us from 1950 to 1975. They simply pulled it all out of Freddie's ass that whole time. Frankly I'm surprised that Raymond Franz, who all but acknowledged that he was aware of what happened, didn't throw in the towel earlier. It had to be bothering his conscience knowing that his uncle was scamming everyone.

  JV